[IPython-dev] Twisted 8...

Barry Wark barrywark@gmail....
Tue Apr 1 21:55:07 CDT 2008


Same on OS X. Installation is easy (via setuptools or distutils). If I
find time in the next day or two, I'll make a twisted8 branch of
ipython1-dev and will try to get things working. Brian, shoot me a
note if you're going to do the same; I'm sure your efforts will be
more efficient than mine.

barry

On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Glenn H Tarbox, PhD <glenn@tarbox.org> wrote:
> I don't fully understand all the issues with setuptools and the variants
>  other than there is a substantial debate.  I've seen threads and IRC
>  traffic on this on the twisted channels and elsewhere so I know there
>  are issues.
>
>  However, I've been running trunk Twisted for a while...  8.0 did bring a
>  number of fixes but the rather dramatic jump in numbering is almost
>  entirely about changing the version numbering scheme itself (the 8 is
>  for 2008), not a rearchitecture.
>
>  By the time code makes it to the trunk on Twisted, its pretty solid.
>  I've had no trouble and given the number of tests and buildbots (I host
>  4), I'd be surprised if we found significant issues.
>
>  On linux the installation is trivial and solid... can't speak to the
>  other platforms.
>
>  -glenn
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 01:26 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
>  > On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 04:11:52PM -0700, Barry Wark wrote:
>  > > Just to play devil's advocate, it's not our fault that linux distros
>  > > lag behind in their packaged version of Twisted ;)
>  >
>  > How old is the twisted 8.0 release? I have the feeling it is only a
>  > couple of weeks old. In this case you can't call not packaging in a
>  > stable release lagging behind, but simply normal procedure of validating
>  > before shipping. Do you run mission-critical servers? Do you know what it
>  > means to have a lab stopped from working if their is a flaw on the
>  > packages you supported on one of your servers. I can tell you, it feels
>  > very bad. So supporting leading edge is great when you are dealing with
>  > your own box, and you are a devlopper happy to play around, but elsewhere
>  > more conservative decisions can also make sense.
>  >
>  > > On the more practical side, why not use Python's pacakge system (i.e.
>  > > setuptools) to install Twisted (I'd guess that all linux distros that
>  > > would include ipython would also have setuptools packages)?
>  >
>  > Because it s not Python's package system. It is a hack to work around the
>  > fact that Python has no package system. It induces a crazy amount of side
>  > effect and misbehaviors. Don't get me wrong, I use setuptools a lot, and
>  > appreciate the fonctionnality they add, but I can hardly see them as a
>  > robust solution for packaging. It is funny you should mention them, AFAIK
>  > until this (leading edge) release, twisted itself could not be installed
>  > using setuptools.
>  >
>  > I am not sure if you have followed, but currently setuptools are a
>  > burning subject. IMHO Python packaging is a burning subject, and I am
>  > tired of loosing a ridiculous amount of time to deal with different
>  > version of libraries. I am afraid there is no good solution. Provide
>  > several almost good solutions is a good idea, and setuptools do figure
>  > amongst these, but I must admit I wouldn't force people to rely on
>  > setuptools. I bites back.
>  >
>  > > using a setuptools-compatible Twisted might allow the ipython1
>  > > installer to install (maybe even precompiled) Twisted eggs if Twisted
>  > > isn't present. Just a thought.
>  >
>  > This kind of reasonning has brought setuptools to what it is currently:
>  > something very problematic on secure and high-reliability servers. Indeed
>  > you seem to be suggesting that the installer will be doing some magic to
>  > download the requirements if they are not their. Think about it, this is
>  > both a unacceptable security hole, and something that forbids any kind of
>  > alternate packaging (for instance for automated deployement on a
>  > cluster).
>  >
>  > I am just trying to warn people that setuptools is a neat toy, but not a
>  > solution for everybody. I use it a lot on my development boxes, but never
>  > on my servers.
>  >
>  > My 2 cents,
>  >
>  > Gaël
>
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>  --
>
> Glenn H. Tarbox, PhD    | Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas
>  206-494-0819            | are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats
>  glenn@tarbox.org (gtalk) + ghtdak on aim/freenode     | ^ Howard Aiken, IBM engineer
>
>
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