[Numpy-discussion] Numarray: question on RandomArray2.seed(x=0, y=0) system clock default and possible bug
e.maryniak at pobox.com
Wed Jul 24 10:29:02 CDT 2002
On Wednesday 24 July 2002 17:59, Chris Barker wrote:
> Just to add my $.02:
> I disagree with Eric about what the default behaviour should be. Every
> programming language/environment I have ever used uses some kind of
> "random" seed by default. When I want reproducible results (which I
> often do for testing) I can specify a seed. I find the the most useful
> behaviour. As Eric points out, it is not trivial to generate a "random"
> seed (from the time, or whatever), so it doesn't make sense to burdon
> the nieve user with this chore.
> Therefore, I strongly support keeping the default behaviour of a
> "random" seed.
In that case, and if that is the general consensus, RNG should be adapted:
it now uses a fixed seed by default (and not a clock generated one).
> Eric Maryniak wrote:
> > then I'd urge at least to use a better initial seed.
> > In certain applications, e.g. generating session id's in crypto programs,
> > non-predictability of initial seeds is crucial. But if you have a look
> > at GPG's or OpenSSL's source for a PRNG (especially for Windows), it
> > looks like an art in itself. So perhaps RNG's 'clock code' should replace
> > RandomArray2's: it uses microseconds (in gettimeofday), too, and thus
> > will not have the 1-second problem.
> This I agree with: a better default initial seed would be great. As
> someone said, "show me the code!". I don't imagine anyone would object
> to improving this.
The source is in Mixranf(), file Numerical/Packages/RNG/Src/ranf.c
(when checked out with CVS), but it may be a good idea to check it
with Python's own random/whrandom code (which I don't have at hand
-- it may be more recent and/or portable for other OSes).
By the way, I realized in my code 'fix' for RandomArray2.seed(x=None,y=None)
that I already anticipated this and that the default behavior is _not_
to use a fixed seed ;-) :
if either the x or y seed:
seed < 0 ==> Use the default initial seed value.
seed = None ==> Set a "random" value for the seed from clock (default)
seeds >= 0 ==> Set seed directly (32 bits only).
and en-passant do a better job than clock-based seeding:
"""seed(x, y), set the seed using the integers x, y;
if (x != None and type (x) != IntType) or
(y != None and type (y) != IntType) :
raise ArgumentError, "seed requires integer arguments (or None)."
if x == None or y == None:
# This would be the best, but is problematic under Windows/Mac.
import dev_random_device # uses /dev/random or equivalent
x = dev_random_device.nextvalue() # egd.sf.net is a user space
y = dev_random_device.nextvalue() # alternative
# So best is to use Mixranf() from RNG/Src/ranf.c here.
elif x < 0 or y < 0:
x = 1234567890L
y = 123456789L
Eric Maryniak <e.maryniak at pobox.com>
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