[Numpy-discussion] Numeric3

Travis Oliphant oliphant at ee.byu.edu
Thu Feb 3 11:53:07 CST 2005


John Hunter wrote:

>>>>>> "konrad" == konrad hinsen <konrad.hinsen at laposte.net> writes:
>>>>>>           
>>>>>
>
>    konrad> I agree completely. In addition, there is compatibilty:
>    konrad> lots of code out there uses the FFT and LinearAlgebra
>    konrad> interfaces that have been part of Numeric for many
>    konrad> years. numarray has them as well (it just requires a
>    konrad> change in the import statements).
>
> I too would be *very disappointed* to see LinearAlgebra, RandomArray
> and FFT leave Numeric.  matplotlib requires all three.  Numeric is
> lightweight and easy to install, and although the scipy install is
> significantly easier than it was in yesteryear, it still has higher
> barrier to entry.  I am much happier requiring only Numeric than
> Numeric and scipy.
>  
>

This is all a matter of semantics and packaging.

My point is that it is silly to have a really nice wrapping of fft, 
linear algebra, and random number routines in SciPy and then repeat them 
somewhat for Numeric (or vice-versa).

So to satisfy this complaint, the standard Numeric3 install is actually 
a "slimmed-down" scipy.

> As for the change in import statements, one thing that would be nice
> to see in Numeric3 is a package structure for these extra modules that
> mirrors numarray's. 
> This is what the matplotlib numerix module
> currently does, and the in the various __init__ files imports either
> the Numeric or numarray symbols depending on the configuration
> settings.  This seems most sensible since the longer term goal is
> integration.
>  
>
I'm not that concerned about what names we give things,  but why not the 
names that scipy has.

Or scipy should change it's names.

There was some discussion about this on the scipy list.  Nobody had a 
clear winner in terms of "naming" conventions.
SciPy's stated goals for some time have been to provide numerical 
operations for arrays.  If you want to call this super-structure 
numerix, then fine.

SciPy adjusted for those that don't want to install everything.  It is 
very easy to pick and choose the packages you want to install.  There 
appears to be a hesitancy on the part of some to adopt something like 
scipy.  I'm not sure whether it's scipy itself, or just the idea of 
scipy, that some people find difficult to adjust to.   

We talk about some version of the arrayobject getting into the core.  
Guido is not going to accept FFT's and LinearAlgebra (or maybe not even 
ufuncs).  Towards this end, I prefer  to separate the ideas of the 
arrayobject from the things you can do with it, which is why I believe 
scipy (with appropriate slimmed down versions) is a better place to 
discuss fft's, linear algebra, and the like.  

Old code can be handled with compatibility layers.

-Travis











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