[SciPy-Dev] License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL

Saullo Castro saullogiovani@gmail....
Sun Aug 25 03:04:28 CDT 2013


@Robert Kern

maybe you misunderstood me, I am not trying to find a workaround to include
GPL code in scipy, actually I just found it interesting that SciPy is
compatible to MIT and MIT to GPL, but not Scipy to GPL. Your answer has
clarified it so far...
I will keep in touch with the cubature author (Steven Johnson) to see if
relicensing is an alternative, and moving on with the wrapper (testing and
documentation now).

Thank you!
Saullo


2013/8/25 <scipy-dev-request@scipy.org>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: cubature license (Saullo Castro)
>    2. License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL (Saullo Castro)
>    3. Re: License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL (Matthieu Brucher)
>    4. Re: License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL (Robert Kern)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 08:40:09 +0200
> From: Saullo Castro <saullogiovani@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [SciPy-Dev] cubature license
> To: Scipy-Dev <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <CAHbwRz7Uy_=5o3Dvk=_
> M-3oKCAFuckZBHwBd+D6sKx4bTBP5OA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> @Warren
>
> from the good disccusion here (
> http://matplotlib.org/devel/license.html#license-discussion)
> it seems that the biggest difference between the GPL and the BSD is that
> the former requires you to distribute your source code, and the BSD allows
> you to do whatever you want...
>
> I don't see the problem to include it in SciPy, since the source code is
> always distributed. Even if third part companies like Enthought are using
> it, it is more like a module, isn't it? and the core code behind it can
> still be BSD  based.
>
> Anyway, the software has a `clencurt_gen.c` stand-alone program which does
> not have to be used unless the user whant a `p-adaptive` cubature with more
> than 8193 points per dimension, this type of cubature applies
> "p-refinement" (increase of interpolation function order) instead of
> "h-refinement" (splitting the interval). I don't see a need to include this
> program in the SciPy cubature. We can implement this restriction in the
> wrapper.
>
> I will ask Steven Johnson about this, if removing this part could make
> cubature re-licensable to BSD.
>
> Greetings!
> Saullo
>
>
> 2013/8/24 <scipy-dev-request@scipy.org>
>
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: cubature license (Robert Kern)
> >    2. Re: cubature license (Warren Weckesser)
> >    3. Re: cubature license (Warren Weckesser)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 16:53:10 +0200
> > From: Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [SciPy-Dev] cubature license
> > To: SciPy Developers List <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAF6FJivScnjqnAZO8OJ0XZpJ48+KsC5rdOmE+5z-EWWJn7iH_g@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Warren Weckesser <
> > warren.weckesser@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 8/24/13, Saullo Castro <saullogiovani@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > @Alex,
> > > >
> > > > you are right, "it uses some GPL code from other projects (Hintlib
> and
> > > > GSL).
> > > > "
> > > >
> > > > But is it really impossible to include it in SciPy because of that?
> > >
> > > Yes.  We do not include GPL-licensed code in SciPy.  I haven't looked
> > > at the Cubature code, so I don't know the extent to which it uses
> > > HIntLib and GSL, but based on the comment on the web page, it is
> > > unlikely that Steven Johnson can re-license his code with a license
> > > that is compatible with SciPy.  The GPL is viral that way (insert the
> > > usual "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer here).
> >
> > It's not quite as viral as that. He can license the code that he himself
> > wrote under whatever license he likes as long as it is compatible with
> the
> > GPL license of the other libraries that he is combining his code with. If
> > the code that he wrote is separable from HIntLib and GSL by rewriting
> that
> > functionality, he can distribute his code under the BSD license for
> > inclusion in SciPy.
> >
> > --
> > Robert Kern
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 11:04:51 -0400
> > From: Warren Weckesser <warren.weckesser@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [SciPy-Dev] cubature license
> > To: SciPy Developers List <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAGzF1ufwXi4UoGeCwvBN1HCJbigGKtpYisM8KFEc9n5NAhyNtA@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On 8/24/13, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Warren Weckesser <
> > > warren.weckesser@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 8/24/13, Saullo Castro <saullogiovani@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> > @Alex,
> > >> >
> > >> > you are right, "it uses some GPL code from other projects (Hintlib
> and
> > >> > GSL).
> > >> > "
> > >> >
> > >> > But is it really impossible to include it in SciPy because of that?
> > >>
> > >> Yes.  We do not include GPL-licensed code in SciPy.  I haven't looked
> > >> at the Cubature code, so I don't know the extent to which it uses
> > >> HIntLib and GSL, but based on the comment on the web page, it is
> > >> unlikely that Steven Johnson can re-license his code with a license
> > >> that is compatible with SciPy.  The GPL is viral that way (insert the
> > >> usual "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer here).
> > >
> > > It's not quite as viral as that. He can license the code that he
> himself
> > > wrote under whatever license he likes as long as it is compatible with
> > the
> > > GPL license of the other libraries that he is combining his code with.
> If
> > > the code that he wrote is separable from HIntLib and GSL by rewriting
> > that
> > > functionality, he can distribute his code under the BSD license for
> > > inclusion in SciPy.
> >
> >
> > Yes--thanks for the clarification.
> >
> > Warren
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert Kern
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 11:16:16 -0400
> > From: Warren Weckesser <warren.weckesser@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [SciPy-Dev] cubature license
> > To: SciPy Developers List <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAGzF1uezSbAmsWNwSyfRug5tz08UA1pe7pUeeBYVE1tmykSWrw@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On 8/24/13, Warren Weckesser <warren.weckesser@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 8/24/13, Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:47 PM, Warren Weckesser <
> > >> warren.weckesser@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> On 8/24/13, Saullo Castro <saullogiovani@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> > @Alex,
> > >>> >
> > >>> > you are right, "it uses some GPL code from other projects (Hintlib
> > and
> > >>> > GSL).
> > >>> > "
> > >>> >
> > >>> > But is it really impossible to include it in SciPy because of that?
> > >>>
> > >>> Yes.  We do not include GPL-licensed code in SciPy.  I haven't looked
> > >>> at the Cubature code, so I don't know the extent to which it uses
> > >>> HIntLib and GSL, but based on the comment on the web page, it is
> > >>> unlikely that Steven Johnson can re-license his code with a license
> > >>> that is compatible with SciPy.  The GPL is viral that way (insert the
> > >>> usual "I am not a lawyer" disclaimer here).
> > >>
> > >> It's not quite as viral as that. He can license the code that he
> himself
> > >> wrote under whatever license he likes as long as it is compatible with
> > >> the
> > >> GPL license of the other libraries that he is combining his code with.
> > If
> > >> the code that he wrote is separable from HIntLib and GSL by rewriting
> > >> that
> > >> functionality, he can distribute his code under the BSD license for
> > >> inclusion in SciPy.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes--thanks for the clarification.
> > >
> > > Warren
> > >
> >
> >
> > P.S.:  Saullo, here are a couple links to more information about
> > compatible licenses:
> > http://wiki.scipy.org/License_Compatibility
> > http://matplotlib.org/devel/license.html#license-discussion (the
> > discussion of the matplotlib license is applicable to scipy)
> >
> > Warren
> >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Robert Kern
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
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> > SciPy-Dev@scipy.org
> > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/scipy-dev
> >
> >
> > End of SciPy-Dev Digest, Vol 118, Issue 36
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:00:43 +0200
> From: Saullo Castro <saullogiovani@gmail.com>
> Subject: [SciPy-Dev] License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL
> To: Scipy-Dev <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAHbwRz6xbrkErFK+X7KM0E+YwDA0FNWM+fq8jyk3PVqyPA6Pxw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Well, we've been discussion the license combatility for the cubature
> module.
>
> >From the links @Warren gave me:
> http://wiki.scipy.org/License_Compatibility
> http://matplotlib.org/devel/license.html#license-discussion
>
> it states that the MIT license is compatible with SciPy, and in the MIT
> description in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License) it
> states that this license is compatible with the GPL. So... is there a crack
> here where we could place a GPL software in SciPy?
>
> Thank you,
> Saullo
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 08:11:40 +0100
> From: Matthieu Brucher <matthieu.brucher@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [SciPy-Dev] License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL
> To: SciPy Developers List <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAHCaCkKLLZSNYq+XHXt6xmAThWvA2wYeSBycp1LVvRNHxPGe2A@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi
> Unfortunately, it is the other way around: you can put bsd code in gpl
> code, but if you put gpl code into bsd code, the latter has to be
> relicensed. Btw, if you put gpl code indide mit code, the same has to be
> done.
>
> Cheers
> Le 25 ao?t 2013 08:00, "Saullo Castro" <saullogiovani@gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
> > Well, we've been discussion the license combatility for the cubature
> > module.
> >
> > From the links @Warren gave me:
> > http://wiki.scipy.org/License_Compatibility
> > http://matplotlib.org/devel/license.html#license-discussion
> >
> > it states that the MIT license is compatible with SciPy, and in the MIT
> > description in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License) it
> > states that this license is compatible with the GPL. So... is there a
> crack
> > here where we could place a GPL software in SciPy?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Saullo
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 09:46:00 +0200
> From: Robert Kern <robert.kern@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [SciPy-Dev] License compatibility SciPy -> MIT -> GPL
> To: SciPy Developers List <scipy-dev@scipy.org>
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAF6FJiuYLvcOhDMnfHzhdgEq3fpVWnQER1aEj4Q-8S46NTCUyA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Saullo Castro <saullogiovani@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well, we've been discussion the license combatility for the cubature
> module.
> >
> > From the links @Warren gave me:
> > http://wiki.scipy.org/License_Compatibility
> > http://matplotlib.org/devel/license.html#license-discussion
> >
> > it states that the MIT license is compatible with SciPy, and in the MIT
> description in Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License) it
> states that this license is compatible with the GPL. So... is there a crack
> here where we could place a GPL software in SciPy?
>
> No. License compatibility is not commutative. A license is GPL-compatible
> if it adds no restrictions above those in the GPL. A license is
> BSD-compatible (and thus scipy-compatible) if it adds no restrictions above
> those in the BSD license. The GPL adds restrictions above those in the BSD
> license.
>
> We have decided as a matter of policy for the scipy project to only include
> code that does not add more restrictions than roughly that of the BSD
> license. This isn't really an issue of license compatibility. You can
> combine BSD scipy code and GPL code just fine, but we have a policy against
> including GPL code into scipy because we want to keep the licensing
> situation simple and understandable and not copylefted. If some scipy
> packages were BSD-licensed and some were GPL-licensed, everyone will have
> to pay close attention to which ones they were using to be sure that they
> are obeying the terms of the GPL license. That's really annoying. It is
> much easier for everyone involved to keep the GPL code in an entirely
> separate package.
>
> I appreciate your effort in learning about these issues, but please
> consider it an exercise in personal education rather than trying to find a
> workaround to include GPL code in scipy. There isn't one.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
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