Tue Jun 26 17:34:58 CDT 2012
On 6/26/12 5:18 PM, Fernando Perez wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Brian Granger<firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>> We are aware of these alternatives. My philosophy (and I think it is
>> reflected in the rest of the team) is this: by sticking with plain
>> old WebSockets, all we have to do is *wait* for the situation to
>> improve. That is super easy to do! Once IE 10 comes out, we should
>> cover most browsers. If we go another route, *we* have to do all the
>> work, and in the end, we will throw that work away because WebSockets
>> will eventually have universal support. That sounds like extremely
>> low priority work to me.
> +1 (and also with Min).
>> People should not be running older browsers anyways. There is simply
>> no reason, you almost have to try hard to run an older browser.
> There are real-world scenarios where individual users are *forced* to
> run older browser by constraints beyond their control, such as
> university/school/company-run machines where they have no admin
> control at all. So I do see that *in principle* it would indeed be
> nice to support older browsers.
> But given the extremely high cost of development to us of such
I thought SockJS was pretty much a drop-in replacement for Websockets.
Theoretically. Of course, we haven't actually tried it out.
Or I suppose you're also talking about lots of other quirks with older
browsers beyond this issue.
> I just don't think it's a realistic proposition: we'd get
> bogged in a tarpit of old browser support that would easily consume
> all our limited dev resources.
> So I simply accept that IPython isn't the right tool for those in such
> constrained environments, unfortunately. We have to pick our battles
> carefully if we're going to make progress, and this is one such
> tactical choice.
Thanks; that sounds like nearly unanimous replies from the three major
people. We were in much the same position a year ago regarding IPython;
we could wait for IPython 0.12/0.13 to mature to base our sage cell
server work on, or we could forge ahead with the Sage cell server on the
old IPython. I'm glad we forged ahead; we've learned a lot about how
the environment works, and we've had a lot of adoption. Now we're
rewriting it all to use the IPython framework this summer :).
I see more clearly the different audiences we cater. IPython can force
a browser choice because the using the notebook is usually a personal
choice for a personal user. In our case, universities are a primary
target, so we'll use SockJS in our deployment of IPython/Sage web
interfaces, which will hopefully go away in a few years when websockets
is ubiquitous. The nice thing is that (theoretically) SockJS is a
drop-in replacement for websockets, so it should be really easy to push
things back to websockets when the time comes.
Anyways, good to know it was considered!
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