[IPython-user] scrollback editing bug under OSX 10.5
Mon Jan 7 01:33:36 CST 2008
There has been some discussion about similar issues on the PyObjC
list. I've argued for using a separate python.org python for
non-system python tasks, but Apple is pitching the built-in python as
the one-stop solution for python on OSX. I'll try to summarize the
situation. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I can't offer any real solutions,
The debate comes down to "use the system python" vs. "use python.org
python". In favor of the system python:
1. The python 2.5 that ships with Leopard has some nice additions
(such as dtrace support) that are not available in the python.org
2. PyObjC 2 requires the Objective-C 2.0 runtime that ships with
Leopard (OS X 10.5). The python.org installer is built against the OS
X 10.4 libraries and you can't build or use PyObjC2 with the
python.org python (yet).
3. Having a ready-to-go python installed with the system makes helping
new python users get up to speed much easier. Telling someone "type
'python' and press return" is easier than explaining how to install
etc. In fact, the system python comes with setuptools installed, so
getting ipython installed is as easy as "sudo easy_install ipython"
from a fresh Leopard install.
In favor of python.org python
1. readline works
2. There's no chance of messing with packages that system apps depend
on. This is somewhat of a big issue: Leopard system apps depend on
e.g. numpy. Installing a newer version of numpy on the system python
takes a bit of work (see the numpy and PyObjC list archives).
In our environment, we've temporarily resolved the debate by building
the python.org distribution from source using the 10.5 SDK. readline
(and ipython) work fine, we can compile and use pyobjc2, and we keep
our python environment separate from the system python. You do miss
out on dtrace support in python, however. It's a bit of a hassle to go
through all this yourself, so I've put the installer for our
python.org-10.5 SDK build on our web server
It's only tested with Intel machines, but should be universal.
Obviously OS X 10.5 is required. YMMV.
As far as I know, that's the state of things. Maybe Brian can comment further.
On Jan 5, 2008 10:13 AM, Fernando Perez <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> On Jan 5, 2008 11:04 AM, Noah Gift <email@example.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I spoke with Brian Granger about this (he's a full-time Leopard user),
> > > and he seemed convinced that the real problem was in Leopard's
> > > readline-like library. I'm sure he'll pitch in to provide further
> > > insight on this, but I think his approach was simply to install python
> > > from python.org separately and use that for his own work, which did
> > > away with the problem altogether.
> > >
> > > It's a solution I really don't like a whole lot, but it seems in this
> > > case the problem is outside our control. I'd love to be proven wrong
> > > though, if someone knows how to mess with Apple's library (even a
> > > ctypes-based hack might be OK, since ctypes is now included in 2.5).
> > I think a lot of people would love a simple how-to. I know you have a
> > massive user base waiting with PyObjc developers waiting get into
> > IPython, so the sooner the better :)
> Would that how-to be "install python from python.org" and run from
> there? I'm hesitant to put anything up on the wiki speaking about
> OSX, since I don't actually use the platform myself, but obviously
> this is high priority. So let's collect a bit more feedback on the
> list from our actual OSX experts, and we'll put up at least a summary
> page with our current best knowledge of the problem (even if it
> involves a sub-optimal solution regarding apple's builtin library).
> So all OSX experts, we're waiting for you :)
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