[SciPy-dev] Python (Enthought Edition) for Windows test release

Prabhu Ramachandran prabhu_r at users.sf.net
Fri Jan 28 13:12:03 CST 2005

>>>>> "JC" == Joe Cooper <joe at enthought.com> writes:

    JC> Prabhu Ramachandran wrote:
    >> I'll try and make a 1.4 release sometime soon so this is
    >> easier, but if its not a hassle would appreciate if you could
    >> use the above snapshot till then.  Thanks!

    JC> My policy was to use only the latest release versions of
    JC> everything, but it seems no one does releases anymore, so all
    JC> the "stable releases" of everything are broken in horrible
    JC> ways, according to the developers.
    JC> ;-) (I grin, but it's proven to be true for just about
    JC> ;everything in
    JC> Enthon.  If I don't laugh, I'll cry.)

Well, in my case the CVS snapshots are actually stable. ;-) I have had
several problems making a release.  The biggest being lack of easy
availability of a win32 box to build the win32 binary.  Starting this
week I have easy access to a win32 box, so this is not an issue

    JC> I've be diverted to working on the Linux version of Enthon for
    JC> the rest of this week, so if 1.4 can happen by Monday or
    JC> Tuesday, that would make me much happier than including yet
    JC> another snapshot.

OK, I'll push its priority up and try to get a 1.4 release done ASAP.

    >> 3. Seems like the 'enthought' package included is a little
    >>    dated.  Do
    >> you plan to update this to a more recent version?

    JC> Yes.  As soon as I get one that builds.  ;-)


    >> 4. The chm docs are amazing.  However some of the docs like
    >>    IPython,
    >> elmer, SWIG etc. are not part of it.  Would be awesome if these
    >> could also be integrated.

    JC> Sure would.  I have little clue how to make it happen...but
    JC> I'll look into it.

Hmm, well you (or some magical elf on your machine ;-) seems to have
done it for the MayaVi documentation -- its part of the big Enthought
Python chm.  So I guess the same magic would do for these.

    >> wrapping.  You've also turned on building the Patented classes.
    >> This _could_ land you in legal trouble.  So, I'd advise that
    >> you turn patented libs off.

    JC> Eric asked for the Patented classes.  I will re-open the issue
    JC> with him, if you think the patents are still in effect, and
    JC> distributing them will cause issues--I don't think there is a
    JC> problem with us dsitributing them, but I would like to warn
    JC> people off of them, if the patents are still in effect.

IIRC, Robert Kern raised very valid concerns about this on the
MacEnthon thread on this list.  I am totally clueless as to the nature
of the patents and when they expire.  I just thought I'd mention it so
you are aware of potential problems.

    >> Finally, I am interested in learning of your experience with
    >> aap.  It looks to be a very interesting tool.  I've used scons
    >> and scons really shines when it comes to building code but I
    >> don't think it easily allows for the kind of thing that aap is
    >> so strong in.  Care to share your thoughts and experience with
    >> aap?  In particular, do you think it is possible to abandon
    >> distutils in the future in favor of it?

    JC> Given my experience with distutils, I believe it would be
    JC> possible to abandon distutils for a ball of twine and some
    JC> used chewing gum.  (OK, I exaggerate, but distutils strikes me
    JC> as being incredibly fragile...see the thread yesterday on
    JC> Scipy-users about my troubles building Scipy_core.)

I love your description. ;-)

    JC> aap is very very good, and Bram Moolenaar has been very
    JC> responsive to bug reports.  It is also pure python, which
    JC> gives it a leg up for my needs, since I can bootstrap up a new
    JC> Enthon build environment (theoretically--this won't become
    JC> reality until I don't need MSVC6 and the Wise install
    JC> builder...which happens in Python 2.4) with only Python
    JC> 2.4 and the free compiler from MS.  And, again theoretically
    JC>     until some
    JC> of the other ugliness has been excised from the system, I can
    JC> install aap and point it to the right place, and have it
    JC> download all of the packages, build them, and bundle them up,
    JC> without any human intervention.  New versions will be a lot
    JC> easier.

Sounds very cool.

    JC> But for a general build/install utility, I have little
    JC> experience with it.  I certainly wouldn't argue against it, as
    JC> it simply has to be better than distutils.  It's only negative
    JC> is that it is a new thing for folks to learn.  It took me an
    JC> afternoon to get the gist of it, and I've never bothered to

The aap docs are very good (with lots of examples).  I spent an hour
reading it up earlier and was very impressed.  So, I really don't
think learning a well documented and useful tool would be too much to

    JC> get much beyond that--though I will spend more time with it
    JC> once I'm working on 2.4 and all of the uglies in the 2.3 build
    JC> are just a bad memory.

Good luck!

    >> Anyway thanks again to you and Enthought for the enormous
    >> effort involved in this task and for the quality of the
    >> packaging!

    JC> Thanks for the kind words.  And thanks again for looking at
    JC> it.  Because I have so little knowledge of most of the
    JC> components (there's just too many to keep up with, and a lot
    JC> of it is far outside my area of expertise), I really need
    JC> input on how stuff works.  If I don't hear complaints or
    JC> comments, I assume everything is perfect, and I work on other
    JC> things.

Sure, glad to be of assistance.  I will try to cut a 1.4 release of
MayaVi sometime soon.


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