[SciPy-dev] the public face of scipy.org (was Some Feedback)

Andrew Straw strawman at astraw.com
Sun Nov 13 16:07:07 CST 2005

I'm convinced Trac is the correct "hardhat area" for the development of
the scipy packages, but after reading the ongoing discussion, I have a
few points that I think are in Moin's favor as the "public face" of

1) Once Moin is set up, the administration of who can edit pages and so
on can be handled entirely within the Moin wiki through the use of
Access Control Lists (ACLs). Users can login to create a new username
out of the box and then edit pages where allowed (in fact, you can set
it up to allow non-logged-in users to edit pages, too), but privileged
users must be listed in a special page for listing ACL group members.
So, for example, if we're worried about our front page being defaced
(despite Moin's anti-spam features), we could create an ACL group for
those allowed to edit the front page. See
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/HelpOnAccessControlLists for more

2a) I know Joe Cooper's time resources are scare, but having installed
many instances of Moin and struggled with Trac on and off for over a
year, I put Moin's ease-of-installation far ahead of Trac's. (Of course,
Trac is already installed...) The reason is precisely because Trac
integrates with svn, and to build it , at least, seems to require
svn/apache/python/clearsilver/swig to all be the right versions. Moin,
AFAIK is pure Python.

2b) I believe it's likely that installing Moin will take less time than
figuring out the svn/login issue with Trac. (If we used Moin for the
public face, we wouldn't need non-svn-commiters editing the Trac wiki,
do we? Anonymous non-logged-in users can still create new tickets, I think.)

3) It would be really nice to be able to include images in wiki content,
for tutorials, for example. Does Trac let you do that, including
uploading the image? (I haven't seen any on any Trac sites I've seen.
The docs http://projects.scipy.org/scipy/scipy_core/wiki/WikiFormatting
suggest that the image must already be published somewhere on the web.)
With Moin, it's "inline:MyFigureName.png", which then allows you to
upload the image as an attachment to the page.

4) I don't see the benefits of having "Ticket:1432" on the public face
of scipy.org.  With the public face of scipy.org, I think we're aiming
to promote the-universe-of-scientific-python (and not
scipy-the-package). I don't think we want to scare people off who are
comparison shopping against our proprietary competitors by listing open
tickets on the front page. Obviously I'm not saying we would use
"Ticket:1432" on the front page if we used Trac, it's just that I don't
see this feature as an advantage in the context of the front page.

5) In the pretty-front-page-to-compete-with-proprietary-software
department: Moin has lots of themes, some of which look pretty nice
already, and modifying them to making new ones is easy. See
http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/ThemeMarket . I haven't seen any Trac
instances look different than the default, and it looks pretty
intimidating for the casual browser. ("Roadmap","Browse Source", "View
Tickets" are all things I'd venture we don't want on our public face.)

I hereby volunteer myself to set up Moin for the public face scipy.org,
although whether it's possible to give me login permissions to do so is
another question... I'm also happy to help someone (Joe Cooper?) do the

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