[SciPy-dev] adding a nice progressbar to scipy

Fernando Perez fperez.net@gmail....
Thu Jan 10 13:08:25 CST 2008

On Jan 10, 2008 10:06 AM, Ondrej Certik <ondrej@certik.cz> wrote:

> > > Especially the ETA is very handy, because I get a clue how long I need
> > > to wait for my code
> > > to finish and I get it for free (see the above example).
> > >
> > I tend to think that something like this might be more useful for
> > IPython, or some other interactive environment.   But, I'm open to
> > opinions.
> Yes, or ipython. All I want is that it is part of some standard
> package, so that it's installed by default.

Well, here we're back to the old discussion between 'integrated,
all-encompassing packages' and modular libraries.

The progressbar package is already in pypi, so anyone can install it with

easy_install progressbar

So the question is, what do we win by bundling it.  Mostly convenience
for end users.  But then that means we have to put it somewhere.
Where?  Do we simply swallow it into ipython?  I'm not sure the
original developer would want that.  Do we put it into
ipython.externals (we have that for external packages we absolutely
need).  That's certainly a possibility, but then slowly ipython will
begin to carry other third-party projects we need to sync with, etc.
And at some point, that becomes the problem Sage already faces: you
duplicate lots of stuff, and distributors (like Debian) start to
complain that it doesn't make sense to have this type of

In the scipy world, we've taken an approach in many ways opposite to
sage: well-defined and separated tools that do one thing well each
(ipython, numpy, scipy, matplotlib, etc).  People are then free to
assemble them as they best see fit.  This has both pluses and minuses.

Sage has gone the other way: include the entire universe inside, down
to python itself, a Fortran compiler, low-level system libraries like
termcap, etc. Sage is almost an operating system (in fact for windows
it is, since Sage for windows ships an entire Linux distribution as a
VMWare image).  There's an undeniable advantage of convenience for end
users here, but it also does cause problems on other fronts.

Asking for progressbar *inside* ipython is asking for that kind of
'bundle everything that could be useful' approach.

How do you see that balance?  What's the perspective of others?  I
have a lot more thoughts on this question, and in fact it's something
I hope to discuss in detail at the Sage/Scipy meeting, but I'd like to
hear other opinions.



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