[SciPy-dev] [Numpy-discussion] Announcing toydist, improving distribution and packaging situation

Dag Sverre Seljebotn dagss@student.matnat.uio...
Mon Dec 28 13:21:01 CST 2009

> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 3:49 AM, Dag Sverre Seljebotn
> <dagss@student.matnat.uio.no> wrote:
>> Do you here mean automatic generation of Ubuntu debs, Debian debs,
>> Windows
>> MSI installer, Windows EXE installer, and so on? (If so then great!)
> Yes (although this is not yet implemented). In particular on windows,
> I want to implement a scheme so that you can convert from eggs to .exe
> and vice et versa, so people can still install as exe (or msi), even
> though the method would default to eggs.
>> If this is the goal, I wonder if one looks outside of Python-land one
>> might find something that already does this -- there's a lot of
>> different
>> package format, "Linux meta-distributions", "install everywhere
>> packages"
>> and so on.
> Yes, there are things like 0install or autopackage. I think those are
> deemed to fail, as long as it is not supported thoroughly by the
> distribution. Instead, my goal here is much simpler: producing
> rpm/deb. It does not solve every issue (install by non root, multiple
> // versions), but one has to be realistic :)
> I think automatically built rpm/deb, easy integration with native
> method can solve a lot of issues already.
>>  - Currently I'm making a Sage SPKG for CHOLMOD. This essentially gets
>> the
>> job done by not bothering about the problem, not even using the
>> OS-installed Python.
>> Something that would spit out both Sage SPKGs, Ubuntu debs, Windows
>> installers, both with Python code and C/Fortran code or a mix (and put
>> both in the place preferred by the system in question), seems ideal. Of
>> course one would still need to make sure that the code builds properly
>> everywhere, but just solving the distribution part of this would be a
>> huge
>> step ahead.
> On windows, this issue may be solved using eggs: enstaller has a
> feature where dll put in a special location of an egg are installed in
> python such as they are found by the OS loader. One could have
> mechanisms based on $ORIGIN + rpath on linux to solve this issue for
> local installs on Linux, etc...
> But again, one has to be realistic on the goals. With toydist, I want
> to remove all the pile of magic, hacks built on top of distutils so
> that people can again hack their own solutions, as it should have been
> from the start (that's a big plus of python in general). It won't
> magically solve every issue out there, but it would hopefully help
> people to make their own.
> Bundling solutions like SAGE, EPD, etc... are still the most robust
> ways to deal with those issues in general, and I do not intended to
> replace those.
>> What I'm saying is that this is a software distribution problem in
>> general, and I'm afraid that Python-specific solutions are too narrow.
> Distribution is a hard problem. Instead of pushing a very narrow (and
> mostly ill-funded) view of how people should do things like
> distutils/setuptools/pip/buildout do, I want people to be able to be
> able to build their own solutions. No more "use this magic stick v
>, trust me it work you don't have to understand"
> which is too prevalant with those tools, which has always felt deeply
> unpythonic to me.

Thanks, this cleared things up, and I like the direction this is heading.
Thanks a lot for doing this!

Dag Sverre

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